I would love to know a simple thing. Why are those communications happening on discord and not in the steemit platform itself?
What is missing on steemit that make everyone feel more inclined to use other platforms like discord to engage with the community and have great talks?
I agree, and I think EIP pushes us in the wrong direction. I have found that I have to be on discord, but it shouldn't be that way. I think there's this weird fear of "cluttering" the blockchain, and that we'll be punished for writing mediocre comments. But that's silly. Short comments are not spam. Spam is spam and the worst purveyors are bots.
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Do you know who I worry about most? @gentlebot
I think @ionlysaymeep will thrive in any environment, though.
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I had a fairly long conversation with Meep awhile back. Damn thing always wants the last word.
Oh? I think I offended meep. I keep talking, but they ghost me.
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You are absolutely right. With all those fears of 'clutter' the blockchain, the only visible result is that more and more people tend to use other platforms like discord and important information and engagement is lost in here...
How can anyone defend the growth and make a platform stronger with the ultimate vision to attract more users and keep them engaged if the majority use another platform to communicate and discuss all this and other topics?
That don't make any sense. I really hope this change and the devs of this platform start to think more about the best experience possible they can offer and not get stuck on 'how to save the blockchain by implementing minor fixes'.
Sometimes you have to push something a bit harder without fear in order to see the 'big results'. No one needs to invent the wheel at this point... if people like discord and want some of there functionality here in order to spend more time on the platform focus on building that...and not promoting rewards for downvotes for example.
The EIP has absolutely nothing to do with “cluttering” the chain or attempting to prevent comments. Can’t you elaborate on what you mean a bit?
I'd be happy to elaborate.
When I said the EIP makes it worse, I mean the incentive to have these conversations will be even lower, as comments rarely receive 16 steem upvotes, so even if your every comment is read and appreciated by the writer you're communicating with, the new curve will reduce the value of their appreciation, which is enough of a feel bad that I'd expect no one to really vote for comments, which is a pity.
The goal of the EIP may not explicitly state that it intends to de-clutter the chain, but that rewards curve is meant to force accounts to group their behavior together. Which means small positive contributions will receive even less, which means no one looking to maximize their return will engage in one-on-one conversations on-chain. It also means outliers, people who don't follow or lead the pack, will give less value proportionate to their SP. It'd be nice to avoid a system that discourages outside-the-box thinking. Ah, well.
And also, that curve IS meant to de-clutter the chain. I mean, it's talked about as keeping them from taking rewards, but the effect is the same. And for a new user, or even an old user, this concept of fighting spam is hard to disconnect from the idea that my $0 comments are the spam they're talking about.
that was the first thing i was moaning about when i read about the changes. not be able to vote for people that follow my content and engage.
Keep moaning! I feel like they're using a broad range of herbicide to kill the pesky weeds without realizing they'll also kill the daisies. Or they realize and they don't care about daisies. Or they realize, but think the pigweed is a big enough problem that the daisies are acceptable collateral damage. Regardless, I'm yelling, "I care about daisies! Don't kill the daisies! Daisies are my favorite! I think a lot of people love daisies!"
i did for a while, commented, made posts, and all i got is 2-3 responses that voting will change, small accounts will get more because no autovotes and bot votes and downvotes of those autovotes, and bigger steem price, that i am stupid for not seeing that, and that was it. so now i just want them to do it as soon as possible so we can move on.
i never cared about ROI on my votes, voted what i feel i should and when i get to it, so maybe after it i will only vote 100% on comments just to skip dust vote on them. (if even that will be possible)
Well the people pretending to know all the positive impacts of this change are either delusional or lying. I don't pretend to be sure, but I am sure that it's not a magic bullet, and I'm furthermore sure they can't know. There's no way to test it, I keep being told, so I don't know where they get their confidence from. This isn't physics, it's frontier economics. Behavior is hard to predict.
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Dust vote will be affected, I think many have discussed this. I believe there is a discussion being had about lowering the dust vote so the impact would not be so great. But again, I’ve not seen anyone discuss this on chain.. so I guess it’s back to the point of this post... tell them what you want to see.
i seen it but i did not get what they plan to do with it. the dust vote is more as a joke, because with this prices even now it is hard to go over it. curve change will eliminate voting on comments for people that don't have over 5000 - 10000SP even if they don't care about ROI.
You keep saying this will stop comments, but are you implying that the only reason people interact through comments on this chain is for upvotes? As my comments are very rarely upvoted and I still do so quite often.
I’m just trying to figure out where you are coming from as $0 comments have nothing to do with the curve and it’s not designed to prevent them.
So are you looking for another way to “like” comments without wasting your VP? (As you mentioned somewhere here). Are you worried about how it affects the dust vote? Or are you concerned with how the curve will initially decrease rewards on low rewarded posts? Or none of the above?
The only people who may stop commenting are those who are doing spam comments only to self upvote it and farm rewards... other than that I’m very confused how you feel these changes will stop comments.
Your, mine and everyone else’s $0 comments are NOT the spam anyone is talking about.
This one: Or are you concerned with how the curve will initially decrease rewards on low rewarded posts?
Here is one use case that the new curve renders less functional, but there are many more:
I run Punday Monday every week. People write puns on a given topic, and I reward the successful puns with my vote. It's a tiny bit of positive on the chain, that takes a tiny bit of effort, and that is rewarded with a tiny bit of money.
Will they all stop now? I dunno. I think they enjoy it enough and have learned how to do it, so they might keep going. But I also think they started because of the promise of a little change in their pockets. That's the promise of Steem.
So, my understanding of the purpose of the platform is: it's a social media platform and a blogging platform where user likes have financial rewards. Maybe it is other things, too, but that seems integral to the premise.
The whole point of this change is to change behavior, so I'm not sure why you don't think the rewards curve change might even impact desirable commenting behavior.
The "where user likes have financial rewards" part is currently true! Yippee! My largest concern for EIP, is that the plan forgets or ignores the needs of the average user, who isn't trying to maximize returns, but who is rather trying to use the platform as advertised.
Editing to add: nowhere did I say that EIP will "stop comments". I didn't keep saying it. I didn't even say it once. I just want to include this addendum because I'm not sure why you say I said that. Maybe there's a misunderstanding here. I think EIP will have a net negative impact on regular, human, positive behavior, including comments, but I don't think it will stop comments entirely. I don't even think it will destroy Steem. It'll just make it incrementally harder to be a new or poor user.
for example most of my posts (be it photography, sports, steem...) have 2-3 comments, and a lot of the times one of them is steem ua bot. now to show that i appreciate the effort i do upvote comments as to give my 2 cents back.
now with new curve my 2700SP vote that is now around 35 cents (when WP at 100%), will be even lower. so voting on comments, and also voting on people that don't get votes will not only get no ROI, it will just be useless for me and for the that one that i voted for.
Yes, so you are referring to the dust vote and how it will be affected (increased) after the change. Rewarding comments for small amounts and going over the dust will be harder to achieve on your own. That would mean someone else has to also upvote the same comment to push it over the dust.
What I’m trying to say is there is a discussion to lower the dust so this isn’t an issue.
Of course with falling prices votes are worth less, and that’s just how this works. Focusing on what will increase the price should be everyone’s focus, and part of that is making this place appealing to investors.. which I believe is the goal in these changes.
I’ll ask around more about the decrease in dust threshold after the HF and see if I can get more information.
The point I was trying to make above though, is whether a comment is voted or not has nothing to do with if a comment can be made.
So if we can’t reward comments, maybe we could just comment back, engage and have a conversation. I also think emojis would be great but I guess we aren’t there yet
non of my comments were ever written with upvote in mind, i am just saying it is a nice option to give something back to people that engage on your posts (with new curve that will be impossible)
another example why a lot will suffer in the new system. i am week for week in 200 best curators on photography tag. if i am in best curators, you can imagine how much is distributed to the tag.
now why would i in the new system (i had no reason in the old one eather), vote for small acc that has few votes and now even penalised by the curve, so i get less and that small acc get less.
as i said, my mentioning of dust vote is more of a joke for a comparison of power of my vote and what i expect after the changes.
and as i said many times and not listening to myself, now i just want it to be implemented and we get over with it. maybe witnesses could tell us how the testing is going, and when should we expect HF. because november is near and steemit said that until steemfest we will have communities or SMT's (forgot which one was it). and i am kinda sure we will not have two HF in 3 months.
Yes I understand that you want to reward those who comment on your posts and if the dust is increased, then most likely you won’t be able to do so - I have the same concern.
If the dust threshold is decreased though, this may not be something we have to worry about, we will have to see.
As far as date, I believe they are shooting for mid August. Currently they are all focused on testing to ensure the fork goes smoothly.
Because it is difficult to have a “chat like” discussion on chain sometimes. Also, discord allows radio style talk shows, so much of the conversation happens there.
There are many posts made on chain to have these discussions, unfortunately sometimes people don’t know they are happening or how to find them. Having one account where maybe a month or bi weekly “discussion” post is made might be a solution, I’m not sure if that would be helpful or not.
I do think it’s important to have the information on chain as well though. And look forward to a day when discord isn’t needed at all 🙂
Because it is difficult to have a “chat like” discussion on chain sometimes.
If the chain can't be used to create that experience for its limitations, the solution can be the use of another technology to deliver that like the matrix protocol. If everyone wants and push for that they would do it. A great example of that is the next version of busy that already detected that problem and are building their next platform with that in mind as well.
I will leave here the link for you and others to check out @justineh: https://hello.busy.org/
So you can easily see that with the right priorities and will in mind it's possible to bring such great experience on the same platform and not split on different places. For now, I think you will not have a radio and talk shows, but you will have individual and group chats so that engagement can happen on the same service.
There are many posts made on chain to have these discussions, unfortunately sometimes people don’t know they are happening or how to find them. Having one account where maybe a month or bi weekly “discussion” post is made might be a solution, I’m not sure if that would be helpful or not.
That could be a solution, have a tab for that with also notifications built-in so that each person can toggle the notifications and 'discussion' they want to follow. Would be like subscribe to newsletters on the e-mail. That way you are always up-to-date.
Yep, all great ideas.. but someone has to actually communicate and write these posts. 🙂